L-R: Yusuf Tuggar, Piers Morgan, Goldie Ghamari
A tense exchange unfolded on Piers Morgan’s show as Yusuf Tuggar, minister of foreign affairs, traded barbs with Goldie Ghamari, former Canadian member of parliament, over allegations of Christian persecution in Nigeria.
Tuggar appeared on the show, which aired Tuesday, to challenge the claims, clarify figures, provide context, and address Nigeria’s complex security challenge.
In the first 16 minutes of the interview, Morgan presented figures from the International Society for Civil Liberties and Rule of Law (Intersociety) claiming over 50,000 Christians have been killed in Nigeria since 2009 and 18,000 churches destroyed.
Tuggar dismissed the figures as inaccurate and challenged the religious framing, saying the government does not tally deaths by faith and views all victims as Nigerians first.
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When pressed for numbers, the minister went on to claim that only 177 Christians were killed and 102 churches attacked in the last five years in Nigeria.
The temperature went up a few celsius when Morgan brought in Ghamari as a second guest.
The Canadian politician and talk-show host alleged that Nigeria’s insecurity is a form of jihad, drawing a nexus with the October 7, 2023 Hamas attack on Israel.
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She also cited the shared Islamic faith of President Bola Tinubu and Vice-President Kashim Shettima as “evidence” of a complicit Islamist government in the insecurity miasma.
“By the way, this is a government that is working closely behind the scenes with the Islamic Republic of Iran. You should ask the foreign minister why Nigerian school children are holding pictures of the Ayatollah who is a brutal dictator and is murdering my people in Iran,” she said.
“People need to look into the linkages between the current Nigerian government and the Islamic Republic of Iran.
“I was a politician for seven years, Piers, and I can tell when someone is lying and avoiding the truth. That’s exactly what this foreign minister is doing and shame on him for lying.”
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‘YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO CANADA’
Tuggar called Ghamari’s comments a display of ignorance and dismissed her speech as waffling.
He accused the former Canadian MP of sitting far away and treating the lives of Nigerians like a game.
On Tinubu and Shettima’s faith, the minister said Nigerians are more concerned with regional balance than religion. Tinubu is from the southern region while Shettima hails from the north.
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Asked by Morgan if he condemned the attack on Christians by Islamist militants, Tuggar replied in the affirmative.
“I lost my father-in-law to an attack by an Islamic terrorist group, Boko Haram, so I myself I’m a victim. I’ve lost family members to attacks and they were Muslims,” the minister said.
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“But it doesn’t matter whether they’re Muslim or Christian because their aim is to kill, to maim, so that they would achieve their objectives. And the number one enemy of Boko Haram is not a Christian. It is a Muslim who does not subscribe to their own brand of Islam.”
Morgan turned to Ghamari with the minister’s submission for a response. The politician said the killing of Muslims does not “negate the fact that there is a targeted ethnic cleansing of Christians in Nigeria”.
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“People like her trade in starting wars in far away places where they have no contact, they have no understanding of, and they can do that from their armchairs from a safe distance. It’s a real life situation,” Tuggar said of Ghamari in response.
“This lady would not know the difference between a Fulani man, a Tiv man, an Igbo man if they stood in front of her.
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“But you can see clearly overnight because it pays. She’s probably making money out of it. She is out there trying to start a war.
“They want to break up Nigeria the same way they broke up Sudan and now they’ve run away. She’s not talking about Sudan anymore. She’s not talking about South Sudan. I bet she was one of those that was agitating for Sudan to be dismembered.
“This is what they do. This is what they try to do to Africa. Nigeria is the largest country on the African continent. It is the largest shock absorber to the African continent in terms of admitting migrants, in terms of freedom of religion. It’s Africa’s largest democracy.
“But people like you who don’t really care about freedoms, about the freedoms of either Christians or Muslims or Africans will continue to agitate for the break up of Nigeria for war the same way that it’s happening in South Sudan and you’ve kept mum because you’ve moved on.
“You don’t care about the loss of lives. For you, it’s just another black country to be broken up. You don’t care who dies.
“It’s not going to happen to Nigeria. Move on to your next project. You’re a disgrace. You’re a disgrace to the Canadian nation. I’m shocked that you say that you actually practice as a politician in Canada. Move on to the next episode. Leave us alone.”
Morgan ended the interview shortly afterwards.
